Better Things, Pamela Adlon’s semi-autobiographical meditation on motherhood and middle-class Hollywood careers, began its fifth and final season on FX (and Hulu) on February 28th. In the six years since its premiere, the 55-year-old writer, director and actress has seen his own perception of the city change dramatically – from character actor to author – in a relatively short time. But, as Adlon insisted during a call in mid-February from the home editing kit, where she links the latest episodes of her series, she doesn’t have a bandwidth for other people’s expectations.
Your character has such good advice for his children. Have you ever thought that you would be a different parent if there was a room for writers to tell you what to say?
Everyone needs a room for writers, for a connection to be a parent, for every single thing. The biggest part of this show is that I can put things in there, those things where you sit there and say, “God, I want to do it this way.” I always say that my character must be wearing a cloak and it is true. She is the worst of me. She is the best of me. And I can put all that into so many aspects of the show.
Some people judge your fictional parenting?
I was often told that Sam was a passive parent. Really? Is that what you get out of it? I feel like she’s so engaged. She makes many sacrifices for her daughters. But other people say, “She’s so permissive. She allows her daughters to talk to her in a horrible way. “Well, try to raise three girls on your own. Just try the hell.
I haven’t watched the new season yet. What would you like to tell me about this?
Don’t watch it on FX with ads. I will vomit. There’s nothing more dehumanizing than watching an episode of my show with commercial breaks. And when do they finally grab the title? It’s like taking my balls, tearing them off and throwing them in the trash.
So, you say that your next project will not be a sitcom on the broadcast network.
Here is my secret fantasy. Aside from just continuing to make TV and movies, I’ve always wanted to do a multicamera as a showrunner. I just think there are so many missed opportunities in the multicamera and this world excites me. Love it.
Pamela Adlon would appreciate it if people stopped judging their mothers – on television and in real life: “You are trying to raise three girls alone. Just damn it. “Eric Tanner / Getty Images Outline
This is the beginning of a kind of farewell tour. How do you feel, festive or gloomy?
I feel excited. I always live my life in a very reflexive way. When I started this show, it was more than seven years ago. All three of my girls were still in school and under one roof. I had time to think and dream when my children were younger. When you are a parent, this is a way to connect with the world. And this is my experience with my show: first to think about where my children are and then to dive into it. I really am the mother of the whole show. At the moment, I’m just full of gratitude.
Given what the job involves, maybe we should remove the term showrunner and call it what it is – “mom”.
Yes! Thank you. When I had my first apartment, I lived alone when I was a teenager, everyone came through my apartment, lived on my fucking couch and called me mom or mom, so that’s something that’s always been part of my DNA.
From the point of view of being a reflective person, how does this affect your artistic process? Are you the type of person who wants to be able to go back and make changes to the final version, or do you sleep well knowing it’s done?
Oh, I’ll definitely say, “Can I go back and unlock this cut to fix this one thing?” Or, “Okay, this is going to be in the next show or in a movie, or another project, or something like that.” This season I just want to make sure I put everything there. I took a nap like a cat before talking to you, and they woke me up to approve a new line for 506. I watched it yesterday and said, “What the hell is this song?” . So, I just came in and approved this beautiful line. If I had slept on it, it wouldn’t have happened.
After working with Louis CK for the first two seasons, you ran Better things solo for the last three. What did you learn about yourself by taking it all in?
I think that just proved something to me, namely that I am a lone wolf. I look back on my life and I’ve been in and out of relationships since I was 18. You’re becoming very addicted in the world. You think you should have a backup. You don’t think you can really get on your feet. This is a very important thing – and especially for women, it is a disease that does not go away. It is very important that the show ends with me still standing and presenting the show with only one face on my head. I am extremely grateful for the support I received here to stay here and for the fact that I did not give up. I just kept going. I feel extremely grateful and overwhelmed.
You have already mentioned gratitude twice. Why don’t you say you’re proud?
Yes, that’s funny. A month or two ago, my friends and I spent this weekend in one of their houses. There was a yogi and a wise Indian sage astrologer. He talked about karma and everything else. He said: “This is gratitude that you should feel, not pride. I’m kind of scared of that word just because I just did this intense weekend.
Fewer of the two seem appropriate here. I’m not psychoanalyzing you either, but anecdotally it seems that women often say gratitude while men sink into pride.
Oh, I hear you. Listen, I’ve been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that if I were a man and if Better Things was still my show, the world would look very different.
Adlon (far right) on the set of the fifth season of Better Things. Courtesy of FX
How do you think they see Hollywood now compared to seven years ago, before the premiere of Better Things?
More people know about me, but there are still a significant number of people who say, “Who? What show? “(Laughs.) I’ll never be in a place where I say,” They’ll know me! “I’m always insecure, thinking that people think I’m someone else – that they don’t get the name right. me or that they don’t know my show.This may even be a better place for me because the work will speak for itself.
But for people who know you, you are now labeled “copyrighted.” Do you find that this brings expectations?
Well, I guess that means I’m French? (Laughs.) That’s a compliment, because they say I have a special way of telling a story. This is something I do not take lightly. That’s why I review every moment of every episode. That’s the thing with Eleanor Roosevelt. Do one thing every day that scares you.
Definitely.
And it’s nothing. These are important words to live. Don’t worry if people don’t understand it or don’t understand a certain nuance or gesture, scene, character or word. Believe that you know what you are doing. I have this show about a single mother raising her three daughters and having her own older mother who lives just across the street. These are things I would like to see when I was a young mother. When I was a young mother, I was very scared of other mothers. And I just wanted to go and look in their kids’ lunch boxes. I wanted to go to their kitchens in the morning and see what they were preparing for their families for breakfast, because I always had the feeling that I wasn’t doing enough – that I didn’t have enough.
Did you pack your kids’ lunch or something?
Hell, no, Mikey!
Then I think he did enough.
When I found out they were serving these irradiated hot plastic lunch to the kids at school … Oh, my God. I went crazy. Come on, man. We can do better.
After going through last season’s editing, what’s next for you?
I started a development company about two years ago. This has been going on all this time. I adapted a book into a script with my tall friend based on her memoirs. I will be directing a film in September. I really can’t talk about it, but I’m excited about it. There are a lot of small projects, people I keep and mentor. We’ll see if anything sticks. I have a limited series under development in FX. It’s all my father here, it’s the iron in the fire thing. I can’t believe what I see in front of me.
Strange place to put an end to this … but you grew up with Lenny Kravitz, who recently told The Washington Post that he was in love with you in high school. Do you want to react?
What can I say? This is a fucking legend, honey.
The interview has been edited for length and clarity.
This story first appeared in the March 2 issue of The Hollywood Reporter. Click here to subscribe.
Despite her early departure, Thomas said she is open to repeating her role in future seasons. “Really for me, if I had more time during the year to be able to film the show and go out and do some of the other things I want to do now, I would do both,” she explained. “It was not an easy decision to leave, so I would like to come back from time to time and say hello … I look forward to it.”